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(scientific muscle @ Feb. 16 2008,15:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Milk's expensive nowadays. But powdered milk is cheap. And has casein and whey both. I am thinking to buy a big bag of powdered skim milk as its probably the best quality cheap protein available.</div>
That's actually what I've been doing. I use actual milk when I want more flavor, but I use the powdered stuff when I take protein with me places. A bit of that and a couple scoops of whey in a shaker works well.


My main problem isn't getting enough protein though, it's getting enough calories. Anyway, I already eat tons of peanut butter - I love the stuff, so I just buy large jars and eat it with a spoon when I'm on the computer. Good stuff.
Mostly, the struggle is getting enough calories during the workday... a little ironic considering my job, but there you go.

Quad - here's hoping I really will need a wider avatar. We'll see. I'm going to be getting a new camera in a couple months, so maybe some time in July, I'll have some new pics to post.
 
Peanut butter in the protein shake? That wouldn't mix that well! The powdered milk is a good idea, but if you want quick calories then why not throw flax or olive oil on a lot of what you eat?
 
Flax oil is nasty! I'm not gonna ruin a salad for that! Or any more shakes. Surprisingly, PB DOES mix into a shake somehow, using a blender. I think it sticks to the stuff in the shake like it does to the roof of your mouth.
 
Well...

I haven't been logging my workouts, because I've been trying an experiment. I wanted to get back into the heavy things because I really love lifting heavy. Also, I wanted to do a change of pace, because I want to keep my motivation high. One of my acquaintances who is a woman who is into lifting, and her boyfriend is obsessed with weightlifting. He has no friends who share his interests, so asked her to hook him up with me. As a result of talking to him, I've begun trying out something new.

So...
I've been doing DC for a couple weeks now. I'm really enjoying it, though to be honest, I did throw up last week after one of the workouts. Haha. I've been packing in the calories using a lot of food and plenty of protein powder. Bodyweight is up to 210 lbs, everything has grown about half an inch except legs - thighs up .75 inches, calves no growth. Waist has remained stable at 33 inches so far... My triceps seem to be finally responding to the hell I'm putting them through, which is great. I'm getting real close to the 16 inch mark, which is great since I've never surpassed 15.5 and always struggle to keep my arms from shrinking back down to a mere 15.

Now I will admit, I did start taking creatine religiously a few weeks back, so it's likely some of those size changes are due to cell volumization from the creatine, however I am feeling stronger than hell, so I'm pretty sure some of it is actual growth.

I'm not going to go into too much more detail than that, but if my results at the end of this are good, I'll probably post them. Hopefully I'll get some great mass growth and strength development. After all, I've got to really accelerate my growth if I have any chance of catching up, much less keeping up, with Lol and Quad. Obviously it's going to come down to whether or not I can continue to shovel in the food for the next couple months.
 
Great news Tot! The old mass equation never fails: Lots of food in the belly + lots of weight on the bar = Bigger muscles.
biggrin.gif
I was gaining on you in the size department, but now you've gone and taken the lead again! I am aiming to hit 220 at some point this year. Still a long road ahead.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Feb. 27 2008,20:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Great news Tot! The old mass equation never fails: Lots of food in the belly + lots of weight on the bar = Bigger muscles.
biggrin.gif
I was gaining on you in the size department, but now you've gone and taken the lead again! I am aiming to hit 220 at some point this year. Still a long road ahead.</div>
Yep, and getting in enough food has always been my struggle. I'm hoping to get up to 230-240. I've been up to around 225 but couldn't break it. We'll see what happens this time. I think it's a bit difficult running around at 220 though, you need so much food just to maintain...

The rest pause sets are really something. I haven't ever toyed much with failure training, so I think this might be the thing to get my strength levels improving finally.

The only bad thing about all this is that reading the DC site makes my eyes bleed.
 
If you wouldn't mind posting your new routine, or a few sample workouts, I'd be interested to see. I never looked at DC much, just curious what it looks like on paper. (at least your version of it anyway.)
 
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(Totentanz @ Feb. 28 2008,01:16)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Obviously it's going to come down to whether or not I can continue to shovel in the food for the next couple months.</div>
I am at this very moment shovelling it in while I check this board!

Good to hear you are doing some DC training (how did anyone end up with a name like that anyway?). Wondered what you were up to.

I almost hit 224 the other night but then I had to pay a visit and dropped 2 pounds! And I agree, it is really hard to keep eating enough just to maintain. I'm pretty sure I've pushed up my fats and oils as much as I should and now I need to increase my protein more. 240lb is a great goal but to get there and be lean enough to look trained and not just fat, I'd probably have to hit 260 first!
wow.gif
 
Yeah, I imagine I'll get fat on my way to 240, but I lean out easily anyway, so I'm not concerned. Gaining weight has always been the area where I struggle.

DC is neat - it's got all the principles of HST, even a sort of SD (cruising) so I can see why people get results with it.
 
Some do, some don't.
Since I've had the flu, I'm scared to even look at the scale, but I need to. Just started back yesterday with chest, tri's and today with back, bi's. Dreading legs, but my uppers weren't as weak as I thought they'd be. You'll pass me by soon enough man.
 
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(scientific muscle @ Feb. 27 2008,20:23)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Great news Tot! The old mass equation never fails: Lots of food in the belly + lots of weight on the bar = Bigger muscles.
biggrin.gif
I was gaining on you in the size department, but now you've gone and taken the lead again! I am aiming to hit 220 at some point this year. Still a long road ahead.</div>
How true!
biggrin.gif
 
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(scientific muscle @ Feb. 27 2008,21:39)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">If you wouldn't mind posting your new routine, or a few sample workouts, I'd be interested to see. I never looked at DC much, just curious what it looks like on paper. (at least your version of it anyway.)</div>
Just like with HST, DC is actually pretty easy to grasp despite all the confusion online about it. You work out Mon, Wed and Fri. You will have two different workouts, with three variations of each of them.

Workout one would be:
Chest
Shoulders
Triceps
Back Width
Back Thickness

You will need three variations of this, so variation one for me (labeled 1A) is the following:
Weighted Dips
Seated Overhead Press
Skullcrushers
Weighted Chins
Rows

Then I'll have two other variations with different exercises I like.

Workout two would be:
Biceps
Forearms
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads

Again, I'll have an A, B and C version of this.

You do the largest muscle groups last so that you can do an all out effort knowing that you won't have to do anything else after that. I'm sticking to this order and finding that it's working well for me.

So... a typical two week block would look like this:

Mon 1A
Tue off
Wed 2A
Thu off
Fri 1B
Sat off
Sun off
Mon 2B
Tue off
Wed 1C
Thu off
Fri 2C
Sat off
Sun off

And so on. You get the idea. Each session, you will try to progress the load from what you used last time you did that workout. As you can see, using three different variations ends up giving you a drawn out progression over time.

Rest Pause: Most sets are done rest pause style, with the exception of back thickness, calves and quads, because it is dangerous with some of the exercises you would be using (squats, rack deads, rows all come to mind)
The point of rest pause is to increase strength quickly. I haven't seen anything suggesting that the fatigue stimulus is responsible for growth, just that it is the fastest way to increase strength over time. It seems to be working for me for now...
So how do you do a rest pause set? You use something around your 8 to 10 rep max, rep out with it, take 15 deep breaths, rep out again, take 15 more deep breaths and rep out one final time. The goal is to hit 10-15 reps for most lifts, but if you can get more than that is fine. You don't have to go to total absolute muscular failure.

After that is the extreme stretching, which... to be honest, I'm not doing on everything. But if you do the stretches the way they show in the video I have, they aren't really that big of a deal and usually only use bodyweight for the stretch. It looks like they could be useful to improve flexibility, but I've been lazy about them. I think I might give them a chance though just to make sure I've given the entire program a proper go before I start removing or adding stuff.

The cycles are setup similar to HST. You have a 6-10 week &quot;blast&quot; phase where you progress the load until you stagnate/plateau. This is followed by a 2-3 week &quot;cruise&quot; phase where you take it easy or take time off, somewhat similar to SD but in this case it is used moreso for recovery than actual deconditioning.

All in all, the HST principles are all there - load as the stimulus, heavy emphasis on progression, high frequency (though slightly lower than typical HST) and some form of SD.

I like it so far.
 
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(Totentanz @ Feb. 16 2008,07:58)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(scientific muscle @ Feb. 16 2008,15:09)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Milk's expensive nowadays.  But powdered milk is cheap.  And has casein and whey both.  I am thinking to buy a big bag of powdered skim milk as its probably the best quality cheap protein available.</div>
That's actually what I've been doing.  I use actual milk when I want more flavor, but I use the powdered stuff when I take protein with me places.  A bit of that and a couple scoops of whey in a shaker works well.


My main problem isn't getting enough protein though, it's getting enough calories.  Anyway, I already eat tons of peanut butter - I love the stuff, so I just buy large jars and eat it with a spoon when I'm on the computer.  Good stuff.
Mostly, the struggle is getting enough calories during the workday...  a little ironic considering my job, but there you go.

Quad - here's hoping I really will need a wider avatar.  We'll see.  I'm going to be getting a new camera in a couple months, so maybe some time in July, I'll have some new pics to post.</div>
Tot throw in a damn Honey bunn or something from Little Debbie.

55 cents and about 600 calories.

Its not healthy but if everything else is in line protein / carbs then the extra calories are extra calories for growth!
 
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(Totentanz @ Feb. 29 2008,22:40)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">The point of rest pause is to increase strength quickly. I haven't seen anything suggesting that the fatigue stimulus is responsible for growth, just that it is the fastest way to increase strength over time.</div>
Rest pause to utter failure seems to be at the heart of the DC program. Bryan and Dan seem to have concluded that fatigue is not an aid for hypertrophy, but does it really contribute to increasing strength?

Dante seems to believe that the stronger you get, the bigger you get, and that you get stronger by working to (and with rest pause, clear past) failure. But that line of reasoning eventually would seem to conclude that fatigue contributes to growth...
rock.gif
 
Man, Tot - that just looks fun. I've never really looked into DC, but the way you just described it makes it seem like a very intense strength-oriented, HST principles-laden routine. Very, very cool - thanks for the explanation, and good luck with it all.
 
Tot, is that 10-15 reps for all three sets of rest pause? I didn't catch that part when I read up on DC a couple months ago.
 
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(TunnelRat @ Mar. 04 2008,00:22)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Rest pause to utter failure seems to be at the heart of the DC program. Bryan and Dan seem to have concluded that fatigue is not an aid for hypertrophy, but does it really contribute to increasing strength?

Dante seems to believe that the stronger you get, the bigger you get, and that you get stronger by working to (and with rest pause, clear past) failure. But that line of reasoning eventually would seem to conclude that fatigue contributes to growth...
rock.gif
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Yeah, I don't buy that fatigue is necessary for growth or anything, but it does seem to be helping my strength. I'm sure it contributed, but is it faster than doing standard HST versus max-stim? I don't know.

Anyway, from my understanding, the rest pause failure isn't absolute failure in the HIT sense, but it is possible that I've misunderstood the program. I've gathered this from a DVD about DC training that I've watched and from what my acquaintance who is way into DC has told me.

In reality, I've read and heard of some impressive strength gains from max-stim, which seems to me would deliver better strength gains since you end up handling heavier loads for more reps than with rest pause. With rest pause, you are limited to an 8-10 RM type load. So... all in all, if strength gains do drive growth (which I believe they do) then max-stim (and HST, which also uses heavier loads than DC) would seem to be a better alternative than DC training for sheer growth.

I'm far from converted to the DC cult (And reading their site, it definitely has a cult-like feel to it at times...) but it is a fun change of pace, and it follows enough HST principles that I don't feel like I've turned my back on my religion or something, haha.


<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Tot, is that 10-15 reps for all three sets of rest pause? I didn't catch that part when I read up on DC a couple months ago.</div>

The goal is 10-15 reps overall over the course of the rest pause sets. It often ends up looking something like Load x 8 reps + 4 reps + 3 reps.

<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">
Man, Tot - that just looks fun. I've never really looked into DC, but the way you just described it makes it seem like a very intense strength-oriented, HST principles-laden routine. Very, very cool - thanks for the explanation, and good luck with it all.
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To be honest, I wouldn't recommend it except as a change of pace once in a while. I don't think you'd be able to sustain it that long without getting burned out. DC kind of sets it up to compensate for this, with the blast/cruise layout, but... I think it would be better off used simply to break the monotony of doing roughly the same thing over and over. I mean, looking around on this site it becomes pretty clear that sticking to HST for a long period of time yields impressive gains. Lol, for instance, is a good example of this. Look at his early posts and look at this log now. The guys (like him) who stick to what they are doing instead of switching around a lot (like me) end up way ahead over longer periods of time.
 
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(Totentanz @ Mar. 04 2008,19:00)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"> I think it would be better off used simply to break the monotony of doing roughly the same thing over and over.  I mean, looking around on this site it becomes pretty clear that sticking to HST for a long period of time yields impressive gains.  Lol, for instance, is a good example of this.  Look at his early posts and look at this log now.  The guys (like him) who stick to what they are doing instead of switching around a lot (like me) end up way ahead over longer periods of time.</div>
thats a real good point.

personally ive bounced around a bit looking for the right &quot;leg&quot; program........with marginal success.

on the other hand ive continued to bang away at deads and dips for quite a while and the wgts ive progressed to over the yrs are really my most impressive lifting accomplishment.
 
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