Are you experiencing Gains with HST?

Well to get off topic a little bit I have some questions for a couple of you.

Like everyone I found HST to be the best thing for me. But once I joined here I have met many labcoat friends and there routines.

I have found out through my own research and reading that HST is not the be all end all of programs. Its about the principals...and the principals exist in a lot of other routines.

For example you may be doing HST, Max-stim...maybe you are over a Lyles forum and using his program...or maybe you are doing mad cow 5x5?

For my curiousity it would be cool to see how Mikey Nov routine looks...or to see if Dan is constantly doing MAx stim?

Hell I wonder if Bryan with his crazy schedule follows HST every workout.
 
I don't think there is ANY end all, be all program.

HST is great, but as I've posted in other threads 5x5 (I'm doing something closer to the old original than the madcow variation though) does share similar principals and as far as weight being moved goes the end result of the progression is about the same although the rate of progression is a little different. I have no experience with max stim so cannot comment on that other than in writing it looks effective too.

When I finish my current 5x5 I'm going to do a true hybrid where I do HST for the beginning, then 5x5 (Starr's method) the rest of the training cycle.

It will look something like this:

Week 1, 2 are HST 15's (2x15)
Week 3, 4 are HST 10's (3x10)
Week 5, 6 are HST 5's (5x5)

Then to keep the progression going

Week 7, 8, 9, 10 will be Starr's 5x5 (ramped sets, HLM progression)
Weeks 11-15 will be 3x3 going as heavy as I can make it to (still ramped sets, HLM progression)

After that will be 5x5 again until I reach my new 3RM as a 5RM, probably 6 weeks. Then will be a well deserved SD prior to starting my cut to look like a ripped up beast at the beach in September. (cutting July-Sept)

If I stop posting, it's because sometime in the program...I died from it.
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I don't really care whether anyone posts results or not. However, for lifters new to all this, like I was a year ago, it can be very encouraging to read of other folk's progress. I don't think it's about comparisons either. I mean, how many here are ever going to be competing in some strength contest? Only a few I'll wager. I think most folks realise that there's no sense in comparing one person's lifts to another's but reading the progress reports from the same individual can be quite enlighteneing/inspiring. It's just a bit of fun after all. </div>

I absolutely agree with statement from Lol. I am a newbie, and I do feel inspired to see some of the routines and lifts that people do, even though they are in almost all cases far above mine. It gives me something to think about and something to look towards. I generally want to and will believe when people here say they are doing. If someone chooses to lie, or embelish or over estimate, then so be it. I am not here to compete with people, i am here to share information. I really appreciate those that are willing to share, be it their weights, their theories, or their humor...
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ Jan. 21 2007,11:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hell I wonder if Bryan with his crazy schedule follows HST every workout.</div>
Yeah, I do HST. Sometimes I drag out blocks to 3 weeks if I feel I am still benefiting from a given weight load. I almost always do an upper/lower 6 day split. I prefer to reduce the number of exercises in favor of more sets of exercises I like.
 
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(Bryan Haycock @ May 09 2007,13:02)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
(Joe.Muscle @ Jan. 21 2007,11:59)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Hell I wonder if Bryan with his crazy schedule follows HST every workout.</div>
Yeah, I do HST. Sometimes I drag out blocks to 3 weeks if I feel I am still benefiting from a given weight load. I almost always do an upper/lower 6 day split. I prefer to reduce the number of exercises in favor of more sets of exercises I like.</div>
In terms of getting in a good amount of volume with HST, I think a 6 day upper/lower split is probably ideal.

How manageable do you find this, Bryan? My limited experience with this in the past was that splitting stuff into 6 days left me feeling pretty beat up. Then again, there's probably a big element of conditioning at play here - while it may initially feel like a very large workload, it's possible that you could simply adapt to it over time, particularly since HST, by its very nature, has &quot;fatigue management&quot; built in.

I imagine jacking calories way up would also help, but even still, I'd be curious whether the average person could tolerate this scheme.
 
Mikey...we may want to specifiy what a large amount of volume is for some of us here and the newbies.

Some guys consider 20 reps a lot some guys think 30...and etc.
 
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(Joe.Muscle @ May 09 2007,20:36)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Mikey...we may want to specifiy what a large amount of volume is for some of us here and the newbies.

Some guys consider 20 reps a lot some guys think 30...and etc.</div>
I was thinking of it in terms of this...

Dan recently posted a study showing that 2 days a week per muscle group at equal weekly volume to three days a week yielded equal results for mass/strength, IIRC.

One thing to potentially take away from that is that hitting muscles even twice a week is probably &quot;enough&quot; assuming you throw enough volume at it.

However, the other end is that hitting muscles three times per week may actually be a roundabout way of simply getting higher weekly volume versus stuffing in a whole lot of volume only twice a week.

Along the same lines, an upper/lower split done 6 days a week would allow more total exercises/sets per muscle group. I'm not specifying how many, but the idea is 'more than full body three times a week,' probably.

So, if you could tolerate it, 6 days a week upper/lower would probably be the way to go if you wanted to eek out as much weekly volume as physically possible on an HST type routine. Imho, volume DOES matter a lot in terms of hypertrophy, contrary to the wisdom of the HIT jedi.
 
I've basically been doing cycles of HST for a year and a half now, I'm on my fourth. Now I am only doing twice a week, I'm in the 10th week, and I'm about to set PRs in my main exercises. I'm following HST fairly closely, except for reduced frequency (twice a week) and I decreased the load in order to deload/peak. I was doing 25 reps at first, then reduced to 20 in the early 5s, now I'm working up to a top set of 3. I set a squat PR, and am going to PR in bench and rows next workout.
 
This has become one of the better discussions in the forums.
I'm wondering for the sake of those of us who are overloaded with work, family, stress, and a host of setbacks (can you spell f-a-t-i-g-u-e ?) an/or injuries, what the best program is for maintaining gains without getting fatter?
Assuming from above, that more workload is best,
and 2 days a week is enough,
and we don't have time for splits or
energy for long workouts...
I'm assuming that there are basically two options:
1.) Less exersizes, more sets, and
2.) More exersizes, less working sets.
I've opted for the big four as a minimum, and it was doing okay except for fat gains (some of that from sloppy eating) and lately have only been able to do once a week, which doesn't do much good at all. (my job has been very physical lately)
 
In my experience, once a week with something between 10 to 5 RM seem to be enough to maintain strength and muscle... assuming my diet hasn't gone to crap at the time. Big four or five is a good idea and is what I go by as well, most times.
 
I agree with the above , Personally though I'd probably do a 3x3 with 90-95% of 1RM 1x/wk using Bench , overhead, BB row and dead - as losing strength would mess with me most. I think Totz really nailed it though as far as what Quad was asking specifically.
smile.gif
 
Yeah, this is the better thread for sure!

Warning - longish ramble

A vetarans discussion of how best to hit the iron without interfering too much on daily life but still getting the best benefits of it!

I have...much like Quad for the last one or two weeks only managed once p/week, my stapple is the big four for sure, but if we consider the split it becomes eight...it is manageable though
wink.gif


To be slightly more descriptive:

A
Deadlifts
Dips
Pendlay Rows (BB)
Lateral raises/Bent over superset
Incline Curls
Pushdowns or D/B extensions

B
Squats
15° B/B benchpress
Chins (underhand close grip)
Military press
Incline Curls
Pushdowns or D/B extensions

The above joke started off with all exercises in one routine as a superset (eg: bench+dips), this was fine till the 10's...but then it got too much, so the split A/B. As you can imagine 15 x 1 set was ok, 10's by 2 was just ok (the factor wass not p/exercise but per superset).

Now during 5's we are doing 3 sets, and it is just fine, we don't count warmup sets, for squats, deads and bench, this amounts to at least 3 sets ramping up loads.

So far...so good...strength has been there and joints still ok, even though the flaxseed oil right now is not really there.

As Bryan indicates, because of this reduction in frequency I have opted to stretch the cycles to 3 weeks...more for the 5's.
 
Question: Are you experiencing Gains with HST?

Yep doing way better than I thought....10 pounds up (I cracked 85 kilos for hte first time ever, but I am also at my &quot;fattest&quot; ever), at least 2 of which I know are fat going by my change in BF% as per my digi scales (I know they're not great for an absolute, but they might be ok for measuring a change)...and I've still got 1.5 weeks of 5's left...BRING IT! I can't believe this, I've gained more in 6.5 weeks than I have in the last 18 months...oh man am I happy.

This program is out of this world. First cycle BTW, I wish I'd used google and found this site when I started 3 years ago.

I am spreading the word at my local gym.
 
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(Fausto @ Aug. 21 2007,07:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Yeah, this is the better thread for sure!

Warning - longish ramble

A vetarans discussion of how best to hit the iron without interfering too much on daily life but still getting the best benefits of it!

I have...much like Quad for the last one or two weeks only managed once p/week, my stapple is the big four for sure, but if we consider the split it becomes eight...it is manageable though
wink.gif


To be slightly more descriptive:

A
Deadlifts
Dips
Pendlay Rows (BB)
Lateral raises/Bent over superset
Incline Curls
Pushdowns or D/B extensions

B
Squats
15°  B/B benchpress
Chins (underhand close grip)
Military press
Incline Curls
Pushdowns or D/B extensions

The above joke started off with all exercises in one routine as a superset (eg: bench+dips), this was fine till the 10's...but then it got too much, so the split A/B. As you can imagine 15 x 1 set was ok, 10's by 2 was just ok (the factor wass not p/exercise but per superset).

Now during 5's we are doing 3 sets, and it is just fine, we don't count warmup sets, for squats, deads and bench, this amounts to at least 3 sets ramping up loads.

So far...so good...strength has been there and joints still ok, even though the flaxseed oil right now is not really there.

As Bryan indicates, because of this reduction in frequency I have opted to stretch the cycles to 3 weeks...more for the 5's.</div>
there's nothing worse than not being able to get to the gym when your up for it, it gets to the point i almost feel guilty.

however i like the look of that a/b split fausto and im glad to hear that you have managed to salvage the cycle in this way as apposed to one full on workout/superset.

@ quad, please step away from the pies!
biggrin.gif
 
<div></div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">There's nothing worse than not being able to get to the gym when your up for it, it gets to the point i almost feel guilty.</div>

It even worst when its just outside your kitchen door! Damn it, sometimes I just say bugger it I'll go it alone, then I simplify things even more...unsafe to do bench...stick to dips...squats...well do more box squats after it gets too much on ATG...the rest is basically OK...love the deads...man...all you have to do is get'em off the ground
laugh.gif
 
I haven't read through the entire post but made it up to about the 4th page.. lots of interesting views ragarding Neural adaption..

From my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong.. some believe that frequently changing exercises during HST cycles reduces progress due to Neural Adaption having to take place, correct?  

Other's believe that switching exercises during an HST cycle is good for several reasons.. hitting the muscle from a different angle.. being bored..&quot;and even Tricking the muscle&quot;
smile.gif
 

So here's my questions.. I'm 45 years old, been training for most of my life, since age 15 or so... I've done just about every exercise imaginable, thousands of times...

How is changing from one exercise to the other going to effect me regarding neural adaption.. I would think that with 30 years of training my CNS would be in tune enough to sufficiently adapt to almost any basic compound exercise within a reasonably short period of time.. without causing set-backs while this process takes place.. I honestly don't think we're giving the body enough credit for what it can and can't adapt to...

With that said.. this may not be the case for the 18 year old who has limited training experience..? Nueral adaption may indeed inhibit and delay muscle stimulation and growth while the body adjusts to the new exercise?  Just a thought...
 
Go back to page four and keep reading. Most of that was settled. (not being a smartass, just avoiding a repeat discussion for everyone.)
 
Up 6lbs in 3 weeks. Looking to set new PR's on my 10's today, and probably again on Sunday before dropping to 5's.
 
Still gaining... I have been cutting slowly (about 300 cal under maintenance per week) yet I have only lost a couple pounds in the past two months. HST + genetics = extra muscle?!
 
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(mikeynov @ May 10 2007,14:21)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">How manageable do you find this, Bryan?  My limited experience with this in the past was that splitting stuff into 6 days left me feeling pretty beat up.  Then again, there's probably a big element of conditioning at play here - while it may initially feel like a very large workload, it's possible that you could simply adapt to it over time, particularly since HST, by its very nature, has &quot;fatigue management&quot; built in.

I imagine jacking calories way up would also help, but even still, I'd be curious whether the average person could tolerate this scheme.</div>
You need a 5x weekly, 1-2x daily sheiko program to cure your weakness.
 
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