Customizing HST

Discussion in 'General Training' started by proteus9, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. vicious

    vicious New Member

    TUT largely affects metabolic stress (contributing to erk1/2 signal) and continuous neural drive (contributing to strength adaptations.) Both are very desirable. But TUT doesn't contribute directly to mechanical strain, merely the duration of its application onto muscle. There's a theory some of us are playing where, in fact, excessive fatigue (or excessive TUT) may have somewhat of a negative effect on strain.

    Bingo. :)

    Next evolution of our training will likely be a sort of decoupling between what creates mechanical strain and what creates metabolic stress. Although they do not have a mutually exclusive relationship with training (all weight-training inevitably affects both), this sort of snaps apart the workout set and rep-range paradigm. I've been thinking of posting something about "Absolute Load vs. Progressive Load", which would eventually lead to the conclusion of this decoupling strategy. In that regard, a lot of the advice on stretch-points, negatives and so on starts to disappear because then you're thinking purely in terms of minimal strain vs. endurance threshholds (i.e. varying SD to match the minimal load to create DOMS for that SPECIFIC bodypart), progressive strain vs. metabolic stress, the influence of "conditioning memory" of muscle upon progressive curve, and so on.

    But, yeah . . . it'll be too hard to follow. ;)

    He's sleeping with your axe. ;) Speaking of hibernation, I'm going to take a break (I'll mostly check in for PMs and such.) When you want to hit me up with ideas, just PM me. :)

  2. noobie

    noobie New Member

    take it ez jules. [​IMG]
  3. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    WHEN DOING OVERHEAD EXTENSION FOR TRICEPS TO MAXIMISE THE STretch do one use the one arm overhead extension?

    or using 2 hands cupped around one dumbell?
  4. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    WHEN DOING OVERHEAD EXTENSION FOR TRICEPS TO MAXIMISE THE STretch do one use the one arm overhead extension?

    or using 2 hands cupped around one dumbell

    it seems you have other tecniques for maximising hst
    please post them
  5. BoSox

    BoSox New Member

    he has. look for the "customizing hst" thread.
  6. Hey Bosox, not to be an A$$ but, WE ARE IN THE CUSTOMIZING THREAD, did you party a little too much last night [​IMG]
  7. noobie

    noobie New Member

    lolololol that was great [​IMG]
  8. vicious

    vicious New Member

    One arm, in order for my grip to be non-parallel. It's easier to do unilateral negatives that way too. If that's bad on your elbows, then the parallel grip with DB is just fine too, and use a pressing motion in order to bring the weight up to the top.

    Nothing in particular. Everything beyond this involves radical deconstruction of the HST framework (i.e. linear load progression vs. multi-phasic load progression, high-load negatives vs. burn sets, applying rolfing-style techniques while lifting/stretching, etc.)

    But, if you're looking for something to bring up the abs . . .

    1) Stretch: Ab crunches on a hyperextension bench below bench to parallel level. Since most people have never worked their abs beyond the same ROM, even zilcho weight will bring out DOMS. Most people can try it out as a loaded stretch.

    2) Peak contraction: Nelson situp (google for "nelson situp" and elitefitness), performed pulse-style. Wanna know what women go through every month, here ya go? ;)

  9. cheen

    cheen New Member

    I assume you'd add these nelson situps in the 5's only vicious? How long should you take per rep when 'pulsing' them as compared with the normal 10 seconds hold nelson recommends, how many pulses? Should hyperextension crunches be used in the normal hst manner? (eg progressive weights where possible)? and at what rep range should they be introduced? 10's onwards?
  10. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Yup. It's an excellent core strengthening exercise in its own right, but it also creates a vicious, vicious burn. There's not a lot of "ROM" you can do with it, since the only thing that moves are your arms. Pulsing would basically be bending and straighening your elbows. The pain is excruciating. :D

    Actually, I'd probably wait until 5s or toward the end of 10s. It's not a hard movement to do at all, but most people have never worked abs through its stretch before. Hyperextension crunches are great. I only learned about it, when I started doing "dive-style" stretches for the abdominal wall. They weren't hard at all, but they would initially create very deep soreness. Very satisfying.

  11. Bob Evans

    Bob Evans Member

    any one find the "nelson situp" link. I tryied and could not find it. :confused:
  12. Dood

    Dood New Member

    I can't find anything showing the Nelson situp either...
  13. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Here ya go.  The greatest/weirdest ab exercise known to man.  Why?  Because . . .

    A) It takes out the hip flexors and completely isolates the abs section.  You don't work anything but the abs with this movement.  Completely safe for the lower back.  

    B) You can do it in front of the telly!  No additional equipment necessary!  It's free!  Just 30-60 seconds a day on the carpet!

    C) It brings men closer to women, for they too shall know what abdominal cramps feels like!  Did I mention you can do it in front of the telly!

    D) Pretty easy to modulate tension. You can perform it on an incline. You can bend your elbow at the end. You can hold a weight. Because this completely isolates the abs, you can generate ridiculous amount of tension in just this area. For most people, this will be all they need.

    Performing situps off below parallel is IMO better at developing abs. But it's tough to find a bench that you can realistic perform this without falling. The easiest way is to find a hyperextension bench which you'd normally do back extensions. On such a bench, you'd simply reverse orientation and just do very, very low ab situps in the reverse. It's really not that hard but the stretch can bite.

  14. Bob Evans

    Bob Evans Member

    OK tried 'em and rolled over backwards. [​IMG]

    Regarding hyperextension on sit-ups. A few years back I was doing "roman chair" sit-ups. Loved the pain. [​IMG] But then my lower back started talking to me. Doesn't hyperextensions on sit-ups risk lower back issues?

    in any event I will try to perfect. the nelson's.

    Vicious I realize you are on subbatical -- but I miss your postings on this thread.

    Cheers Bob.
  15. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Not really a sabbatical, just that my work is finally picking up. Mostly it's PMs and sneaking in lunch break.

    It shouldn't, but I don't have lower back problems. You only go up to parallel level or so, and lower just as you can reasonably go. It actually looks more like a stretch exercise than a proper ab exercise. Yet another variation is to hold the lowest position with a weight, which won't effect your lower back at all.

    A simple variation is to simply perform this on chair, parallel with the chair's back. Somebody would hold your knees, and you just go as low as possible with a weight.

    That being said, it's not really an exercise I particularly like. I came upon something like it while working on my spine flexibility, and it generated just this strange, deep DOMS that I hadn't felt in years. Note: DOMS in the abs is a problem, since it seriously compromises your exercise performance. I couldn't do rows for half a week because of it! That being said, if somebody did this with the Nelson situp, their abdominal wall and core strength will significantly pick up with one HST cycle.

    I like the Nelson situp because it's completely safe, works great for metabolic work specific to the abs, and it's pretty easy to vary tension. Just too dang hard to explain how to do it without hunting the link.

  16. Lance

    Lance New Member

    Vicious, these situps look intense. But what purpose do they serve?

    I mean, obviously for stronger abs, core stability, etc. Ya know, the abdominals main purpose.

    But for bodybuilding, what reasons would incline someone to do these?
  17. vicious

    vicious New Member

    The Nelson situp almost completely removes the role of the hip flexors, upper trunk, and so on, really isolating the abs. That becomes an additonal benefit when you're putting additional load. The big flaw with the Nelson situp is that it's still a relatively static movement for the abs. The tension it throws on the abs compensates. Oh, and it hurts. A lot. :D

    IMO, it's one of the best and most flexible ab exercises out there. I prefer it over Janda, dragon flag, ab wheels, and machine crunches. And it's also one that can be pretty challenging without any extra load.

  18. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    regarding tthe max ot-hst hybrid i have tthe following questions

    you start the first week with 75% of 1 rm

    so week 1 75%
    week 2 80%
    week 3 85%

    week 4 90%

    so week 1 corresponds to 8 reps?is this 8 rm?
    and week 2 will correspond to what repetition 7 rep???and for each sucessive week the rewps will drop?

    when should i start to test for the max on the second week itself on monday?

    in what week is partials loaded stetches pulses be used?

    what do you mean by 3-5 rep refeed?

    from the above weeks what week is the 5 s phase begins?

    from this hybrid you are not supossed to repeat weights for 2 or more workoouts as per hst classic schedule?
  19. vicious

    vicious New Member

    It's actually simpler than that. Now, your 8RM may be anywhere between 70-80%, but the idea is to have at least 2.5-10% load increments each week. You use your failure point to guage how much to do the next week. Ideally, you can do at least 5% increments every week and the rep # will not fall below 6-8 or 3-5, but again that may vary week-to-week.

    That's correct. You always test the load on Monday keeping overall volume low. Then Wednesday and Friday, you switch to cluster HST in order to produce the # of reps you really want without burning out your neural drive.

    I probably wouldn't do that stuff at all for the first cycle, since you would need to know how long you can make a cycle go. You may want to add a very light burn set, though, in order to bring up the metabolic work. (And for you kids out there, when you throw in the partials, loaded stretches, and pulses -- well, now you have a HST/Max-OT/Doggcrapp ultimate bastard child! ;) )

    Technically, there's just 2 phases -- you have a 6-8 or 5-7 rep range and then you have a 3-5 rep range -- but there's really no phases with this approach, per se. The rep ranges are just there to give you structure in terms of calculating your total reps.

    For example, if you're working in the 6-8 rep range and actually do 10 reps to failure, then you would only do 3x8 or 24 reps, instead of 3x10=30. When you get down to the 3-5 rep range -- if you do 7 reps, then you would still limit yourself to 3x5 or 15 reps.

    When you've arrived at a load that you can't do 3 reps with, then you quit your cycle. Then, for the next cycle, you start at the last load that got you 6-8 reps and do it all over again.

    For the sake of functional performance, you should refeed during your off days or weekend. Training to failure is a double-edged sword. It causes a CNS fatigue hit, but when done with ample rest and food, it causes significant strength adaptations. The trick is to properly cluster training, so that you have very little fatigue. And you may choose to do just 2 "sets", i.e. 2x8 = 16 reps.

    In this case, you do repeat the load for another 2 workouts. Although it's a compromise from HST's progressive loading, you will be training pretty heavy AND you will be working with loads that you haven't encountered before. Totally new to the muscle.

  20. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    the 2.5-10 % is it of 1 rm or 5 rm?

    2.have you personally use the hybrid max ot?whar are the results?

    3.with it can you exzpect strength gains and mass gains? said pulsing with chins low do you do it?what load you use?you pulse from the above descens a few inches then top again?

    5.suppose on monday i did 10 rep to in the 6-8 phase and i do 2 sets to failure.then on wednesday and friday how do i cluster?for 20 reps or 16 reps? to test for new load on monday if one uses alternate exercise flat bench monday wenesday incline bench and friday flat bench said there are many ways to make hst more effective.can you post the ways?

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