Customizing HST

Discussion in 'General Training' started by proteus9, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    how can you make a hybrid of dc training and hst?

    Pretty much the same thing, except drop it down to 2x-a-week, add in the loaded stretching, and include burn sets.

    so monday you work to failure then on thursday you switch to cluster+ls+burns?and the volume low?

    only 2 workouts per week?
  2. vicious

    vicious New Member

    You'd perform the LS and burn sets on both days. Basically, my thought process is this -->

    1) DC = high strain through loaded stretch, high metabolic stress, lower frequency, weekly load progression, failure.

    2) Max-OT = high strain through heavy load, higher weekly volume, strength transfer to 1RM, failure

    Of course, if you drop the failure and strength transfer requirements, then you're moving toward just a revved up HST program.

    Yet another permutation is to apply a true loading-cycling layer on top of HST. In other words, balancing your SST program with your HST program. For most people, it would probably be easier just alternating between your HST and PLing programs every 2 months or so.

    In short, you ask yourself --

    1) How much strain do I want to begin with? How do I want to progress it? What are the pro/cons with my strain strategy?

    2) How much metabolic stress do I want to create? Do I want to increase metabolic stress in my program? If so, how much? What are the pro/cons of my metabolic stress strategy? How much food (particularly carbs) should I be eating for this strategy?

    3) Do I want to add a strength-specific layer on top of my HST program? If I do, what compromises do I make?

    4) How much SD do I need before this program and after?

  3. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    1. so one day is training to failure +loaded stretching +burns sets?does burn sets included on the faILURE DAY?

    2.then the second day is cluster training+LS= burns?


    4.what about volume low number of sets or exercises?mostly compounds movements? can stretch movement be added ?on the cluster day? many days of rest between the 2 workouts?
  4. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Yup, because you're only training twice a week. Obviously, you would choose a fairly light burn set to do that with.

    Yup, and you would be more aggressive with the metabolic stress strategies on the 2nd day. It's possible that you can LS on the failure days too, just working with percentages and such.

    Yup. Or you can go 4-way split.


    On the cluster day and probably the failure day. You basically play with percentages. If you bench Xlbs this week, you choose the stretch-points in proportion to that X amount. This takes some experience with your workout journal, matching up, say, your deep fly, skullcrusher, and incline curl 5RM with your bench and dip 5RM and working out the fraction. Trial and error, basically.

    And you would definitely throw in pulses. For an overall "body burn", you may pulse the following

    1) Machine Pullover
    2) Leg extension
    3) Leg Curl
    4) Peak contraction movements for upper torso
    5) Nelson situp, pulse-style

    For this program to be competitive with DC, it would have to be 2 workouts for bodypart per 7-10 days. If you split it, obviously it would be more often per that same period.

    Again, this is more armchair speculation than practical advice. The "Max-OT/HST" emphasizes full-body, higher frequency and lengthy strength progression, and so you'd lower the intensity and usage of your LS and burn techniques. The "DC/HST" version emphasizes those same techniques in expense of the frequency. And it's likely your overall cycle will be a few weeks shorter.

  5. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    What are[/] the cons of high strain workouts?

    Severe DOMS ?
  6. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    what is a 4 way split?i dont understand it.can you give a simple example.
    also you talk of irradiation tecnique?what is that?
  7. vicious

    vicious New Member

    More or less. When you create a unusually high level of strain (that is, net load over current conditioning), you also significantly decouple your E/C for said muscle. Meaning, you'll need more neural drive (i.e. more "HUH!") the next time out to repeat your set. For example, if you perform your 5RM straight out of SD, your overall strength levels will drop big time for the first week until the DOMS subsides and most of the strain is repaired.

    It's a neural drive technique used in power lifting circles for many years, but popularized by Pavel to the BB mainstream in his books and T-mag articles. When you clench your fist, you'll notice that your forearms, triceps, and biceps contract. When you curl your toes in, you'll notice that your leg muscles contract too. When you flex your belly into your spine, you'll notice your entire lower core contracting. Irradiation takes advantage of this in order to create higher amounts of tension for the muscle. For example, if you're about to approach failure on the bench press, you can probably eek out 2 or 3 more reps if you try to "crush" the bar with your hands.

    Irradiation is also the basis for the stabilizer theory. We use our hands, feet, and core in order to balance ourselves, meaning that we clench our hands, feet, and core harder than we would on machines or cables. That in turn causes an irradiation effect boosting neural drive and increasing effective peak tension for the bodyparts. A person working with machines can compensate by consciously "crushing" the bars or curling their toes in, but it's obviously easier and more effective to add a progressive, destablizing requirement.

    Ah, I meant 2-way split performed 4x-a-week. :) Say lower body and legs one day, and upper body and pressing movements the other day.

  8. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    So how do I best incorporate extreme&loaded stretching into high frequency HST? Stretch every 2nd or 3rd workout? On day 6 (before rest day)...? Do some every workout and just push harder to counter the E/C decoupling ..?
  9. steini

    steini New Member

    Hum, I'm doing 6x week HST, stretch daily ... am I doing something wrong? ;)
  10. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    for ls you recommend 15 s while dc recommends 30+ s .what is the recommended time so as to create the max tension?

    compared to bench press the ls for chest the flyes the weight is much much less than the bench .so how is that possible that the ls becomes the primary strain stimulator for chest as the weight is less?:confused:?

    if upper chest is lagging can ls using inline bench at angle 30 degrees be used to bring up the upper chest?

    can this type of ls be used for quads holding for 15 s at 90 degrees parallel using a hack squat machine?

    corcenning the 4 way split each bodypart is hit twice week?
  11. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  12. vicious

    vicious New Member

    I'd try everyday. It's fun. ;) Most of the previous conservativism has to do with the constraints of adding a strength-oriented regime (i.e. failure once-a-week) on top of HST. So . . . program = 6x-a-week + LS + pulse/burn sets + mega diet.

    It's really dependent on your loads. DC stretches (and PNF stretching in general) is considerably lighter, usually about 10-15RM. Whereas this variation of HST starts at 10RM and continues into extremely heavy weights. The 10-15s rec itself is a bit arbitrary but reflects that the reflex will trigger quicker.

    You don't want to do overdo it because you could hurt yourself, produce excessive strain, and/or overtrain the reflex (which weakens it), as to make it much less effective the next time. Feel free to go longer, but make sure you bring a vomit bucket. ;)

    Three things . . .

    1) Pecs are secondary movers for the press. In terms of force production for the muscle, an isolation and compound movement are pretty close. The overall winner is usually determined by other factors.

    2) A LS movement, such as deep fly, lets you emphasize the stretch for a movement. Muscle is most vulnerable to damage/stimulation under an accentuated stretch.

    3) The primary disadvantage with loaded stretches is that it's a static movement. But the reflex increases effective peak tension. A lot. WAY out of proportion of your training weight. Pulse stretches take this to another level by causing the reflex to spike AND introducing eccentric contractions against that spike. But it's also more dangerous.

    Yup. :) Even if you could do a normal bench deep fly, most people will opt out and do the incline variation to accentuate upper pec stimulation.

    I'm actually not sure. The stretch itself has to be significant enough to trigger the reflex, otherwise it's just a generic static contraction. The sissy squat variation works very well for that.


  13. Lance

    Lance New Member

    Hmmmm ... i thought the chest was fully stimulated by flat bench, and that incline variations only stimulate the lower pectoral region to a lesser degree, but do not stimulate the upper portion anymore than a flat bench does.
  14. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I was so hoping you'd say that (everyday) :)

    Started them a few days back and they feel great.Also, after 3 days of doing them on top of normal stretching I've noticed more compliance in my joints/flexibility. This is mainly in the shoulders.
  15. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Yup. Overdeveloping the lower pecs may give a person the droopy, "man boob" look. The upper pecs is a much smaller muscle, and so it needs more stimulation in order to develop a "balanced" look in the pecs.

    Jester -- where are you in your routine? The 5s? The key with loaded stretches is to hold it long enough, so that you feel your muscle starting to fight the stretch. It should start to burn.

  16. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    I'm doing a heavy HST cycle, similar to the one you helped Lance develop about 4-6wks ago.

    I'm doing the normal 5s phase, a week of 5RM, then clusters and incremented-negs for 3weeks. I'm using loaded stretches and pulse/drop sets for chest, back, shoulders, and ls for biceps and triceps. Not really interested in bringing up my legs as fast as possible, they're pretty big and I'm still making great strength gains on them with isolation exercises and deads alone.

    Quick question - increment the negs every 4th workout or so...?
  17. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Yeah, every 4th workout or so. It's good to use "tightness" as a guide. How has this been working for you, so far?

  18. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    It's working great. The DOMS were kinda harsh for first 2-3 days, and I've made sure to incorporate a lot of stretching prior to workouts. Haven't felt any complaints in joints yet.

    I've put on ~1.5kgs in 10 days with around 3,300-3,500cal intake. The nutrition is definitely the decider in how much progress one makes. Speaking of which, since starting HST the biggest size increase has always been my upper back. I have a feeling I'm going to get a "genetics" response [​IMG]....but it's just something to note. Also, went shopping for clothes 2 days ago and had to move up a generic size in shirts/jackets (XL -> XXL) b/c my shoulder depth (profile view) is just swelling yeh, I'm happy with the heavy stuff :D
  19. Zack

    Zack New Member

    Jules has helped me greatly. Has got to be one of the biggest influences along with Haycock, on my training.

    Jules is where I currently look to further develop my understanding for hypertrophy training.

    Very appreciated.

  20. skinnyman

    skinnyman New Member

    vicious and othehr hst tweakers , what do you think of this...
    sometimes we HST`ers cannot avoid repeating weights even as much as three times. for example, M-W-F will be 30,30,30lbs
    15 reps total. what if during the wed, do 16 reps and Friday do 17 reps so there will still be progression even though the weight is still the same. much like beating your last workout in DC. any thoughts? [​IMG]
    can't increment much in hammer curls [​IMG]
    thanks in advance [​IMG]

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