Customizing HST

Discussion in 'General Training' started by proteus9, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. Dood

    Dood New Member

    For one, just adding a rep or two really isn't going to do much of anything, though it can't hurt, as long as you don't go to failure. On the other hand, the hammer curl on an incline, (if that's what you are doing), is more for stretching the muscle under load, so it's not as important to keep increasing the weight. Jules mentions that somewhere in this thread.
    Frankly, I'm not even sure it's worth doing an isolation movement like that during the 15's if you're hitting your bi's with other movements.
     
  2. I agree with Dood, adding reps would be great for increasing strength endurance but not for hypertrophy. This goes back to Iron Mike, and beyond, and the dual progressive theory. If using a stretch type movement (incline Curl or fly) IMHO you would be better served duplicating the weight and trying to increase ROM each time instead of reps. Also I agree with Dood on why even bother in the 15's to begin with, you should be using more contraction type exercises than stretch.
     
  3. vicious

    vicious New Member

    dkm and dood are right. Stretch-point movements really shouldn't be done for 15s because the load ceiling is kind of low for most people, and besides it's overkill.

    I personally am not too crazy about adding redundant isolation movements into the 15s anyway.

    I feel a pimped up HST program should reflect a steady increase in techniques and "difficulty", so that the beginning phase should reflect the core of your routine (i.e. basic compound movement), and the end almost doesn't look like any weightlifting routine you've seen. People shouldn't be throwing in loaded stretches into their 10s (calves being a possible exception) or trying to do ballistic, cluster whatever movements in their 15s. Yikes.

    Baseball pitching is like that. You start off with your fastball because it's the foundation for your other pitches. Your slider may have a wicked Schilling break; you may have a changeup that rivals Pedro's, but you still work on mostly fastballs. Your opponent has to adapt to the core stuff first. Then, by the middle innings, you'll show your entire repertoire to keep the hitter on their toes. But only then.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  4. skinnyman

    skinnyman New Member

    may i ask why stretch exercises shouldn't be done in 15s and early 10s? i've searched around the forum and i read that stretches should be done in late 10s and so on.

    i like the term pimped up HST [​IMG]
    thanks anyway. i've been doing inclined hammer curls this whole cycle [​IMG]
     
  5. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    vicious
    dc recommends 500 g of protein .but with the dc-hst do you need that much?i found this amount too much 200 g protein for a 85 kg bb reasonable?

    what is the benefits of the rest pause?also he recommends statics?where do you hold the weights near the contracted position and what is its benefits?
     
  6. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    vicious
    dc recommends 500 g of protein .but with the dc-hst do you need that much?i found this amount too much 200 g protein for a 85 kg bb reasonable?

    what is the benefits of the rest pause?also he recommends statics?where do you hold the weights near the contracted position and what is its benefits?

    with the dc -hst for how many weeks can you keep adding weights?5 or 6 weeks?
    when the gains stalled what do you do?sd?for how many days?
     
  7. Dood

    Dood New Member

    Jules said it right above:

    "Stretch-point movements really shouldn't be done for 15s because the load ceiling is kind of low for most people, and besides it's overkill."
     
  8. Bob Evans

    Bob Evans Member

    It is because LS is simmilar to "hitting the muscle hard" or going heavy. So you both don't need to do it in the 15s and early 10s -- AND --don't want to do it. It would be too much for the muscle at that time and would interfear with progression.

    Bob
     
  9. vicious

    vicious New Member

    DC recommends 2-3g/lbs of protein. Most of his natural trainees just shoot for 2g/lbs in complete protein. 85kg would translate to 360g protein. You could, of course, scale it down to LBM BW (which is what I do.) For example, if it was [email protected]%, then protein would scale down to about 310g protein. Both DC and Max-OT programs recommends that level of protein intake.

    200g is, of course, reasonable too. Carb intake is really important when you're doing fatigue-oriented strength testing.

    Rest pause is a form of clustering. It lets you hit more reps for a given weight than you'd normally would. He doesn't recommend RP for everybody, though. Both that and statics is up to the (CNS) recovery of the trainee.

    It's HIT/fatigue-oriented thinking. He views it as a way to extend the effort beyond positive failure. Holding the weight in a contracted position significantly increases metabolic stress, which as with the other burn techniques, can help creates a nice pump, boost erk1/2 signal, stimulate muscle metabolism, and really help out with the post-WO glycogen uptake.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  10. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    vicious
    with the dc -hst for how many weeks can you keep adding weights?5 or 6 weeks?
    when the gains stalled what do you do?sd?for how many days?
     
  11. vicious

    vicious New Member

    As long as you can keep going up in weights, you continue with your cycle. Hopefully that works out to be at least 6 weeks. Some of this success with these fusion HST programs is just in figuring out how much load increments you can do week-to-week without hitting your ceiling. Having a logbook to reference what you've done in the past helps, but there's still a bit of trial and error here. And A lot of it is mastering fatigue management throughout the week -- clustering properly to avoid burning out the CNS and eating and resting properly to kick sheep buttocks the next week. You gotta beat the logbook every week.

    And, yes, when you're done, you SD for 2 weeks. Then, going into the next cycle, you may spend a week of 15s before going heavy again.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  12. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    vicious
    for the ls of the lats i hang on a chin up bar using weights.
    can the pullover weighted dumbells across a bench a substitute for the ls chin up?that is i do a ls of pullover using a dumbell across the bench?
     
  13. vicious

    vicious New Member

    Yup. Barbell pullover below the bench. If you do that, though, be mindful of not separating the shoulder.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  14. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

    Barbell pullover below the bench

    does dumbell more convenient than barbell pullover?why do you prefer barbell?with a barbell pullover the arms must be bent?
     
  15. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  16. shakeel

    shakeel New Member

  17. vicious

    vicious New Member

    A LS pullover is more effective than a LS chinup simply because of the stretch of the angle.

    Either barbell or dumbbell is fine. DB gives you the advantage of switching to unilateral negatives, though I might add that you'll want to be careful with tweaking your shoulders when going extra low.

    Bent-arm increases the tension against stretch. One variation is to raise it straight-arm, but lower it bent-arm. This will let you use more weight than you'd normally would with bent-arm pullovers.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  18. Jester

    Jester Well-Known Member

    That would involve the triceps a fair bit right?

    How would you determine a good LS weight for BB pullover?
     
  19. vicious

    vicious New Member

    The free weight variation of the pullover does work the triceps and chest a bit, yes. It can be a little tricky because it looks a lot like a skullcrusher, but you need to fix the tricep angle as best as you can. The problem with the machine pullovers -- as with most machines -- is that it limits your range of motion preventing that stretch. Of course, the advantage to the machine pullovers (as, again, with most machines) is their use for pulses and burn sets.

    cheers,
    Jules
     
  20. Nemesis7884

    Nemesis7884 New Member

    why would anyone want to increase metabolic stress throught partial, loaded stretching, pulsing etc...??
     

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