The Essential Borge Fagerli (Blade)

Discussion in 'General Training' started by abanger, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Thanks! I'm just studying too many things at too fast a pace! Dropped the ball on that one. [​IMG]
     
  2. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    Blade's method is probably a good way to get a good GH response from your sets.
     
  3. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    True, but according to ...I'm fairly sure I read it from Coach Hale...that the GH response, test spikes and whatnot that occur from lifting are so minimal on the anabolic scale that it's nonresponsive as far as growth is concerned. I believe it was said that it's near or equal to what you'd get on an adrenaline spike from an argument or some such. Don't quote me though, I just recalled that from somewhere.
    Still, there's nothing out there like MR's!
    It would seem to me that the GH spikes that occur in the night are the ones doing the work, while sleeping.
     
  4. abanger

    abanger Member

  5. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    I think this news completes MR systems; there can't be much more to add. Some of us learned about rest times for legs or larger movements, and this part completes the scenario:
    +15-25 When you have only one exercise for one muscle group, the priority muscle groups, when you train with lighter weights, or just have a higher volume tolerance

    +10-15 når du har to øvelser for en muskelgruppe, eller har en moderat volumtoleranse +10-15 When you have two exercises for one muscle group, or has a moderate volume tolerance

    +5-10 på isolasjonsøvelser eller mindre muskelgrupper når du allerede har trent 1-2 baseløft eller overlappende øvelser, når du løfter veldig tunge vekter, eller hvis du av ulike årsaker har lavere treningstoleranse. +5-10 On isolation exercises or smaller muscle groups when you've already trained 1.2 base lift or overlapping exercises, when you lift very heavy weights, or if for some reason have lower exercise tolerance.


    [​IMG] ooops, you'll just have to read the part 4 update. Evidently it goes back to finnish when copy and pasting! But basically, the idea of overlap control and leaving something in the tank for the next workout is sound.
     
  6. mikeynov

    mikeynov Super Moderator Staff Member

    Those numbers fit well into the ones I came up with for this type of training, i.e. total reps = ~2 x (RM). E.g. if you're using a ~10 RM, 20 total reps is about right, though if you're gonna go heavy and use a ~5 RM, ~10 reps is probably the limit.

    Another example is DC guidelines, where you are using ~8 RM and do ~15 total reps as a default guideline for upper body stuff.
     
  7. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    At least you know what to do with your muskelgruppe... [​IMG]
    I would have thought that the guys doing all MR for their routines would have been just raising the weight in a set rep count, but evidently the reps can be set as you describe, and HST combined would take on a whole new face - a definite cure for the boredom blues. I could see starting at an activation of 12 and going down low as 4, followed by singles. But going very low would probably require extra sets.
    Now to find out who's done it!
     
  8. abanger

    abanger Member

    <div>
    (Bryan Haycock @ Aug. 25 2009,2:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Blade's method is probably a good way to get a good GH response from your sets.</div>
    [​IMG]

    The point of Blade's method is to maximize fiber activation.  KAATSU! [​IMG]
     
  9. CoolColJ

    CoolColJ New Member

    I use a dropset approach with loads 8RM and under instead of trying to grind out singles after the first fatigue point

    I hit 315x9+3+3+2+2 on squats 2 workout back
    but last workout I could only do 315x8+2+2 then I rested and did 275x4+2+2

    I was weaker becuase of fatigue and I left my oly shoes at home so had to squat in Nike free...
     
  10. CoolColJ

    CoolColJ New Member

    from Blade

    After some experimentation and after seeing some nice EMG-graphs from Wernbom, I've updated the Myo-rep guidelines. I've primarily ditched the two fatigue stops in favor of one, preset the amount of reps and rest periods in each Myo-rep series according to the load/rep range. Heavier loads have higher fiber recruitment so rest periods can be extended to allow more total reps, lower loads benefit from shorter rest periods and you can do more reps per series to get in a higher overall volume.

    For priority muscle groups (pick 1-3 each training phase) and at heavier loads (5-8RM range) I like to add a high-rep set of either an isolation exercise or the same exercise in a drop-set fashion (or after a complete rest). E.g. 6-8 +1x on bench press, then 15-20 +5x or 20-25 +5x on pec-deck (or bench press).

    For my Advanced Concept, load and rep range varies from workout to workout, according to the daily undulating periodization model. It's been extremely productive for the more advanced lifters. It doesn't appear to be better than a linear model in beginners and moderately advanced. More on the Advanced Concept will be presented in an upcoming article, and if space allows it - in the upcoming book collaboration project with Lyle, Martin and Alan.

    The first number is the loading range and the activation set, where you go close to failure to maximize fiber recruitment. This is basically an RPE of 9, where you might get in one more rep, but not two. The same goes for the fatigue stop point, terminate the set when the final rep in the Myo-rep series becomes an RPE of 9 or 10 (e.g. you only manage 2 reps when the goal is 3).

    The table reads in the following format: Loading range and reps on the activation set - reps in the Myo-rep series - rest-pause (one deep inhale-exhale cycle = one deep breath = about 2 secs rest) - notation

    20-25 reps activation – 5 reps in the Myo-rep series - 5 deep breaths rest-pause - 20-25 +5x
    15-20 reps – 5 reps - 10 deep breaths - 15-20 +5x
    12-15 reps – 4 reps - 10 deep breaths - 12-15 +4x
    10-12 reps – 3 reps - 10-15 deep breaths - 10-12 +3x
    6-8 reps – 1 or 2 reps - 15-20 deep breaths - 6-8 +2x eller 6-8 +1x

    So 10-12 +3x would look like this:

    11 reps
    rerack the weight and take 10 to 15 deep breaths (20-30 secs)
    unrack the weight and do 3 reps
    rerack and rest for another 10-15 deep breaths
    unrack and another 3 reps
    ...and so on until you can barely complete 3 reps (or you fail at 1-2 reps)

    On some exercises where you can unload the muscle at the start or end of the ROM (leg press, lateral raise, bicep curls to name a few), you can do a &quot;widowmaker&quot;-style variation where you do your activation set to e.g. 15 reps, then lock out your knees/let the arms hang down by your side, take a couple of deep breaths and knock out 1 or 2 reps for another 5-10 reps - notation 15 +5x1 or 15 +10x1, for example.

    Feel free to experiment, whether you do 3 reps instead of 4 or 6 instead of 5 is irrelevant, go by feel. Auto-regulation of volume and loading at a high fiber recruitment is what makes Myo-reps so effective.
     
  11. Lol

    Lol Super Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks for posting Blade's update Colin. That simplifies and distils things nicely.
     
  12. TunnelRat

    TunnelRat Active Member

    'It's been extremely productive for the more advanced lifters. It doesn't appear to be better than a linear model in beginners and moderately advanced.'

    I suppose this means I have a while yet to go before this supercedes my simple linear progression work...
     
  13. CoolColJ

    CoolColJ New Member

    Thanks to Myo-reps I hit a new squat PR today, even while leaning down!

    405lbs x2  with no belt or anything

    yeah baby!! Finally 405lbs is my biatch!
    Not bad considering I had squatted 315x9+2+2+2+2+2 two days ago. Even then all the warmup sets didn't feel all that heavy on my back. CNS can't be in that bad a shape even with that workout 2 days ago, but my legs and hips were still sore and aching on all sets.

    Who says you can't get stronger lifting lighter weights and higher reps, with short rest periods? Not me  [​IMG]
    The heaviest load I lifted the last few months has been 315lbs, which is around 75% of my estimated 1 rep max, and mostly 1 extended rest pause set. Now there is definitely a different skill and timing to lifting heavy weights though. I didn't stay tight with 375lbs and the bar hit the pins, making it a bitch to squat it back up. But 405lbs felt surprisingly &quot;light&quot; on my back and it didn't feel wobbly and hard to walkout like 375 did...

    A bigger msucle is a stronger muscle as they say. My *** has gotten rather large [​IMG]

    I think I can squat 315x10 now, and the rep calculator I use says I'm good for 420x1, 405x2. Looks to be spot on

    So I'm definitely at 2x bodyweight now. Even high bar olympic style I think, when fresh. When I lean down to 165lbs, I'm good for around 2.5xBW.
    Hopefully I can hit 405x5 and 455lbs to make it 2.75xBW. Should be enough horsepower for a 40+ inch vertical jump  [​IMG]

    I'll post the video when Youtube stops acting funny....
     
  14. CoolColJ

    CoolColJ New Member

    here is the video, 405x2 and I also did a 275x11+3 after a 5min rest. It felt hard as hell! I guess the 405x2 really fatigued me...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPd-4KV4f-k

    I've been training in a linear fashion for the last few months, and I can feel myself hitting a wall as far as gains go. I think I've entered the &quot;Advanced&quot; phase of my training age. So maybe it's time to try that undulating approach.


    ----

    More from Borge - just a brief outline of the undulating setup for advanced trainees



    Like I said, I'll publish more on that later

    But a 2-split would look like this:

    Mon - upper LIGHT
    Tue - legs MEDIUM

    Thu - upper HEAVY
    Fri - legs LIGHT

    Mon - upper MEDIUM
    Tue - legs HEAVY

    etc etc

    Exercise selection will usually rotate somewhat, depending on the muscle group. E.g. assign triceps extensions to the light days and close-grip bench on the heavy.

    I like to use a 3-split over 4 days and sacrifice a little frequency for volume for the advanced guys who want to prioritize 1-3 muscle groups.


    ---



    Strength and hypertrophy goes hand-in-hand. Varying rep ranges/loads gives varying degrees of CNS vs peripheral vs localized vs metabolic vs whatever fatigue, but as some newer studies and still to be published studies will show, achieving maximum fiber recruitment and exposing the muscle to a certain time under load will lead to hypertrophy even if you vary loading ranges. There picture is still not clear, but it seems that the muscle simply gets accustomed to specific loading parameters, and as Matt touched on in his excellent e-book, you most likely need more variety as you get more advanced.

    I have no data comparing or quantifying the CNS stress between regular sets and a Myo-rep sets. The auto-regulation will accommodate that more or less, anyway

    ---

    It may vary, but generally LIGHT - 12-15 or 15-20, MEDIUM - 8-10 or 10-12, HEAVY - 6-8 occasionally down to 5s. HEAVY days for priority muscle groups often get an extra set or exercise at 15-20 or 20-25.
     
  15. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    Good work, Colin! I find it impressive just that you did MR's with squats, let alone give us hopes of that large an advance!
    I'm finding that many PL systems use lower weights in brutal fashion, like Westside for instance, to attain strength, and that basically mirrors the MR effect. One thing though, that I've seen on several training sites is the statement that a max rep represents a lost workout, doing perhaps more damage than good, so they're just for finding out where you are or for a comp. - they say to save it for the comps and stay below max.

    That makes sense to me after trying things after a max effort - and the subsequent feeling of overall drain later. I think it totally slams the CNS more than anything.
     
  16. CoolColJ

    CoolColJ New Member

    Thanks man - it's brutal on squats, but well worth the effort!

    It looks like I've gained about 6lbs of muscle all in my legs and hips, since when I was at 188lbs, squatting 285x6 oly style, and vertical jumping 30+ inches back on the 12th July last year. Had a 33.5 inch waist back then. Squat appears to be about 65lbs better now

    I had a 3 month squat layoff inbetween, due to knee issues from tight rectus femoris and left knee medial meniscus injury

    10:1 ratio of squat to muscle weight gain.
    I should be about 195lbs when I get my waist back down to 33.5 inches. So I'll go from 1.75xBW to 2xBW at the same bodyfat levels.
     
  17. Bryan Haycock

    Bryan Haycock Administrator Staff Member

    <div>
    (abanger @ Sep. 07 2009,9:12)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE"><div>
    (Bryan Haycock @ Aug. 25 2009,2:06)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Blade's method is probably a good way to get a good GH response from your sets.</div>
    [​IMG]

    The point of Blade's method is to maximize fiber activation.  KAATSU! [​IMG]</div>
    Simultaneous fiber activation increases with fatigue, GH with lactate. I figured you'd get a little of both happening.
     
  18. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    I just wondered if anyone knows why Blade doesn't visit this site anymore? It would be nice to have him visit here once in a while.
     
  19. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    <div>
    (quadancer @ Aug. 25 2009,2:57)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">True, but according to ...I'm fairly sure I read it from Coach Hale...that the GH response, test spikes and whatnot that occur from lifting are so minimal on the anabolic scale that it's nonresponsive as far as growth is concerned. I believe it was said that it's near or equal to what you'd get on an adrenaline spike from an argument or some such. Don't quote me though, I just recalled that from somewhere.
    Still, there's nothing out there like MR's!
    It would seem to me that the GH spikes that occur in the night are the ones doing the work, while sleeping.</div>
    That may be true Quad, but I see ANY increase in GH or T as a positive thing.
     
  20. Bulldog

    Bulldog Active Member

    It would be nice if Blade would re-write these articles in english. The translator doesn't do a very good job and some of it is somewhat hard to follow.
     

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