RAW MEAT EATERS

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by wisslewj, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. need2eat

    need2eat New Member

    wisslewj

    I find what your saying to be interesting, as I've seen documentary type film on raw eating.

    As you've realized, no one on this site believes crap unless a study/ reference is made to what your saying, be it credible or otherwise.

    If your truly interested in educating people on this site, it would be in your best interest to dig out some of the material you've read and offer references.

    I hope your able to do so, as again, I find what your saying to be interesting.
     
  2. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Dan,

    Thanks for the info. I shall have me a looksee.

    Needto eat,

    Perhaps when I am done rehabing this kitchen of mine I could dig out some info. (I do rehabing and real estate investing so its got me somewhat busy at the moment lol)

    However, one of the big issues that I know some people will have is that some of the info is in journals and others is not. Also, the nature of the study is vital. For example, the China Study guy supposedly proves that Casein causes Cancer. However, this isnt proved using raw milk in its natural form. Its done by using some wildly baked and seperated denatured form. Of course this can cause cancer as its not in the form that nature provided.

    Tons of studies show that cholestoral causes problems. However, breast milk is loaded with the stuff and its so vital the liver will make it if its not consumed! I have even seen studies saying we should avoid breast milk because of the cholesterol! Wow, now nature is totally messed up as well. lol! Cholesterol IS dangerous when cooked however in its raw naural form its vitally healthy and nature demonstrates by putting it in breast milk.

    There are TONS of similarly screwed up "peer reviewed" studies. So peer reviewed, while the seeming gold standard for some, is utterly useless in many cases.

    As I said before, many studies are also paid for by Pharm to reach ceratin conclusions. (This is clearly bad science) Again, these are crap. Its studies like these that make one have to become knowledgeable about how the body works for themselves so they can make wise choices themselves. I started with my nose in chemistry, biology and physics books before diet books as I just didnt know if the diet guru was lying or not and I wanted to know.

    So, when time permits I will try and hunt down some of the many doctors, scientists, etc who have shown raw meats to be healthy etc. But the best thing to do is to study the chemistry of cooking and the body and draw your own conclusions.

    One last thing. The real beacon of light amidst the confusion of studies, good/bad science, etc for me was some basic common sense. If someone were to drop you off almost anywhere in the world 1000 years ago and told you to survive, what would you have eaten?

    You would have been forced to eat alot of meat and the fat attached for energy. Carbs would have been at a minimum as they would have been largely seasonal. There is no way the modern day vegetarian could get by. Even in the tropics where carbs would be far more abundant, there are still seasons and meat is still the most readily available food source in all seasons.

    That by istelf is some common sense showing these ridiculous high carb diets are not natural and healthy. The fact that tons of cultures have eaten raw foods for years with no ill affect and continue to today shows at most that it isnt the horrible thing most think it to be. Coupled with the science and the fact that these peoples consider rancid meat their health tonic, one is forced to consider the possibilities for sure.

    In any event, I will search for some of this stuff once my kitchen is redone and I have more time. I really need to actually take down notes as to where stuff is lol. My memory is quite good when I try to remember stuff, but the problem is I focus more on the remembering data and less names of studies. Since my only goal was to convince myself of truth, I didnt take notes so I could win converts and convince others.

    I enjoy helping others for sure, but people like Margoth want to see more hard eveidence (And this is good as I did too which is why I searched it out) and I just dont have all of it nicely organized lol.

    Need,

    if you have some specific questions you dont feel comfy posting on here (for obvious reasons lol) feel free to email me directly. I can give you some places to begin your search for answers to some of those questions if you would like. My email is [email protected]

    God Bless and have a great day guys! Its beautiful out today! [​IMG]

    Jeff
     
  3. <div>
    (Dan Moore @ Apr. 21 2007,08:20)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Troll or not, I don't know and don't care.

    But if you have never been to Lyle's forum and promoted your diet philosophy and would like to do so, go to http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums/. I am sure you will find the experience, enjoyable  [​IMG]</div>
    You are one evil man. Congratulations [​IMG]

    And yes, wisslewj, I apologize for being harsh on you...it`s just that I really really hate Lyle as he`s a real raw meat eater, and hugely into cutting all carbs and adding fat as it`s far more effective for everything. Have an exchange with him, you`ll find a lot of support there most definitely.
     
  4. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Hey Margoth,

    While I typically think a low carb high fat diet is pretty healthy, it isnt ALWAYS healthy. Certain people clearly do need more carbs in their diets.

    Depending on how ones CNS works or their bodies process and make energy, that will strongly dictate what is overall best.

    As an example, I clearly have a dominant sypathetic nervous system. My wife is quite the oppisette. I do great on chicken, fish and some beef. She clearly thrives on beef and feels crappy on the chicken and fish. This makes sense based on whats in each and the purine levels in each. I also cannot do much dairy whereas she thrives on dairy. Again this makes sense as Calcium stimulates the sympathetic side. (which she needs and I dont)

    Fat consumption has similar issues, especially if one isnt used to fat consumtion. Howvever, most people will do immensely better upping their fat content so long as its healthy raw fats.

    I actually have a buddy who is a powerlifter who has been eating this way for over 10 years. The guy is a creature. His body fat is really low. His numbers from blood tests etc are off the chart healthy and his energy level is insane. I am no power lifter, but I can clearly attest to the massive energy increases and strong constitution. And as I said before, I also experienced radical muscle gain that I have never before had.

    I actually did a test for about 2 weeks not to long back. I quit eating my meat raw, lowered my fat, and actually upped my calories. I kept my workout the same. The end result was that I actually lost a few pounds. Then, I returned to my normal diet of moderate fat and protein and lower carbs, keeping my workout the same still, and within 2 days began gaining weight again.

    As I have no real fat, it was mostly muscle. Now I am sure that there COULD have been some other factors here. But the experiment seemed quite clear to me. On the cooked diet with higher carbs, I lost weight and had low energy, just as I did in the past. On the other I gained and felt like superman. To me this shows there is some definite benefit to raw meats and fats.

    Heck, I didnt even need to eat as many calories on the raw meat and fat. This is no suprise as less energy is needed to digest food and the nutrition is more bioavailable. Hence, less calories needed.

    Anyway, glad we can see fit to get along again [​IMG] All I can say is, try the raw meat and you will be a beliver. (However, you nay have to go through detox lol and that is no fun) Alternatively, if you dont wanna try raw meat, up your fat levels through some healthy method like Raw coconut oil, avocados, cod liver oil (EXCELLENT as Vit A is so vital to building) and fatty fish. I guarantee you will notice a diference.

    By the way, coconut oil has the added effect up speeding up metabolism which will help with fat loss.

    Anyway, just some idead to think about. I will let ya know what I think of old Lyle after I have a chance to read what he says. I tryed the forum but it doesnt appear it is working? Maybe I have to regeister first?
    We will see.

    God Bless
    Jeff
     
  5. RUSS

    RUSS Member

    double post- sorry... [​IMG]
     
  6. RUSS

    RUSS Member

    I decided give this cutting edge diet a go , but I cant get the [email protected] rabbits in my yard to sit still... will try pigeons , they let me get closer......:D
     
  7. bgates1654

    bgates1654 New Member

    Get yourself some javelins and go to town!
     
  8. Sure mate, I`m going to try some raw meat right away...maybe with a little accomodation. Rereading your arguments, I can really see the logic behind them. Please, do post on Bodyrecomposition too(that`s Lyle's board). The discussion there will be most interesting as they`re quite into the Paleo/Raw food movement themselves, especially Lyle. He even wrote a huge book called the Ketogenic Diet where he advocated high fat, meat based diets for pretty much everyone. Those guys are quite up to speed with most developments in this particular field and perhaps they`ll even present new information to you. And yes, you have to register...a minor nuisance really, I can guarantee it`s worth it. And thanks for the advices, I think they`ll help me actually make some progress in the gym for a change, I`m quite lacking in that department.Cheers.
     
  9. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Yeah, those guys all claim to have muscular bodies and 3% bodyfat at Lyle's board.  They are all into raw meat and 'high' meat and weird eskimo sh*t.
    You will love them, I don't believe it, but maybe ther is something to all this. [​IMG]








    *edit-
    Register and post your thoughts about raw meat and how you have gained 20 lb.s of muscle and you have NO bodyfat at all.  They will worship you.
     
  10. Totentanz

    Totentanz Super Moderator Staff Member

    But anyway, I've decided that since exposure to e coli, roundworm eggs, salmonella, etc is obviously good for you, that I am going to start a new diet for my kids. Instead of throwing out spoiled meat, I'm going to force them to eat it. Also, from now on they will be eating all their eggs raw, but only after they have been sitting out for a few days.
    If that doesn't give them an impenatrable immune system, I don't know what will.

    I also want them to have superior recuperative abilities, so I'm going to start beating them until they are bloody once a week. By the time they reach their 20s, they should have the healing powers of Wolverine from X-Men.
     
  11. scientific muscle

    scientific muscle New Member

    Raw meat heals wounds like wolverine's power. If you don't blaspheme your meat by cooking it, the healing powers will enter your body. I can't find the study right now.
     
  12. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    LOL @ Morgoth! Now THAT's what I call classy cultered sarcasm! [​IMG]
     
  13. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Scientific,

    I cannot claim what the guys at Lyles site look like but I know as for me the raw meat has most definitely added muscle and kept my body fat pretty much non existent.  To be fair I have never had a big issue with body fat though.  Only when I ate excessive carbs while trying to gain weight did I ever put on any fat at all.  The raw meat was the only thing I have ever found that put muscle weight on me period.  I tried plenty of other things before and just put on pudge lol.

    However, I also do know plenty of really large and muscular guys that eat this way that dont bother bulking or cutting.  They simply eat a raw diet appropriate for their body type and it seems to work great.   They are cut with very low body fats and great numbers from their docs.

    I cannot be so bold as to claim it will work for EVERYONE.  However, everyone I know that has tried it has had very similar results.

    But in the end we all have to decide what we are gonna do ourselves.  If ya find what works for you and keeps ya healthy, super I would say, follow it lol.

    God Bless
    Jeff

    PS: I also know people they eat high meat and are very healthy. I also know there are many different cultures that eat this stuff and the pleomorphic model does say this would be healthy......however, if ya have ever smelled this stuff its foul! I havent brought myself to try it yet! lol
     
  14. quadancer

    quadancer New Member

    What country or planet do you live on? I've been to a lot of different gyms, over many years, and being a friendly sort, make a lot of acquaintances, but I have YET to meet ONE lifter on a raw meat diet outside of sushi. (which I don't eat either)

    I just thought it a bit odd that you know so many. Anyone else?
     
  15. I know heaps of them...that`s why I reacted badly to his prior reccomendations. I envy the guys, and not in a good way. They`re huge, they don`t have to go through the pains of cutting, nor gain fat because of their bulk, their health is great...hell, a female lifter I know even fought breast cancer by eating raw meat. It was so impressive. It`s as if eating raw meat turns you from human into something completely different, a being with a different physiology, who functions according to different laws that invalidate much of what is claimed to be known. I do think that big Pharma companies and Governments all around the world are indeed involved in a conspiracy meant to maintain their hegemonic rule over the planet by preventing human evolution...but with the avant-garde work being performed by luminaries like Price, the day of reckoning is near, I hope.

    And there's this dude over at BodyRecomposition, Alkanphel. He's about 235, natural, and eating only raw meat...he says as much, and he`s a great promoter of the raw-way of life. He`s also a great fan of Naessen's. And I do apologize again to wisslewj, but I think that he won`t really find the understanding he seeks here. We're too entrenched in Big Pharma lies and missconceptions that we've carried around all of our lives, that`s why I wholeheartily feel the need to re-state my warm reccomendation of going over to BodyRecomposition and interacting with the folks there, they`re eye-openers. Really.
     
  16. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Margoth,

    you are cracking me up lol.

    In any event, I think I could have read this guys book in the past as I have read much about the Ketogenic diet in the past.

    My findings were, that while it does seem to work well for many, many people dont efficiently do gluconeogenesis which will leave them tired, weak, and quite literally stupid. Those people absolutely need some carbs to keep a positive level in their livers.

    So, as with anything these days, diet does depend on ones operating system.

    As for any &quot;magic&quot; raw meat has, it doesnt. It is simply materials that are more bio available and hence serve to better supply the body with what it needs. The body has a remarkable ability to heal itself given the proper raw materials. Think of it as the debate between one protein powder being more bioavailable for muscle growth.

    I dont think raw meat will evolve me into some freeaky white light capable of infinite wisdom and telekinises. [​IMG]

    Quad,

    that doesnt suprise me as most lifters follow the status quo of eating. Most of the people I have met I didnt meat in gyms. I either met them through the farmer I go to or some other way. But they are out there lol.

    I know that Vince Gironda advocated a diet very similar to what I do and he trained champs like crazy. You can even call the guy that now promotes Vinces books etc. (Ron was his name if I recall) He follows Vinces diet advice and eats a low carb raw meat diet. (You can buy any of Vince workout books or diet books via this guy at pretty good prices. To my knowledge this is the only place you can buy Vinces stuff these days. I have the number around here somewhere if anyone has ever been interested in Vinces stuff.)

    Vince did advocate liver pills which I dont agree with. If one is gonna eat liver, which IS good for some people, I would most definitely make sure its grass fed no matter how ya eat it, cookd or raw. Commercial cow livers are scary with toxins.

    The point is that there were plenty of bodybuilders at one point eating raw foods and low carb diets with great success. However, as with most everything, people have set aside healthy foods for crap loaded with MSG, hydronated oils, chemicals, wierd hormones, pestisides, etc. Heck people would be far healthier, even if not eating raw, if they just ate natural unprocessed foods without all the crap.

    As I said before, a natural diet would also be low in carbs because almost all carbs need to be processed. (and are only seasonally available) People would then be stuck just eating fruit/veggies for the most part when in season and thems are good eating lol.

    God Bless
    Jeff
     
  17. dkm1987

    dkm1987 New Member

    <div>
    (Morgoth the Dark Enemy @ Apr. 22 2007,05:07)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">I know heaps of them...that`s why I reacted badly to his prior reccomendations. I envy the guys, and not in a good way. They`re huge, they don`t have to go through the pains of cutting, nor gain fat because of their bulk, their health is great...hell, a female lifter I know even fought breast cancer by eating raw meat. It was so impressive. It`s as if eating raw meat turns you from human into something completely different, a being with a different physiology, who functions according to different laws that invalidate much of what is claimed to be known. I do think that big Pharma companies and Governments all around the world are indeed involved in a conspiracy meant to maintain their hegemonic rule over the planet by preventing human evolution...but with the avant-garde work being performed by luminaries like Price, the day of reckoning is near, I hope.

    And there's this dude over at BodyRecomposition, Alkanphel. He's about 235, natural, and eating only raw meat...he says as much, and he`s a great promoter of the raw-way of life. He`s also a great fan of Naessen's. And I do apologize again to wisslewj, but I think that he won`t really find the understanding he seeks here. We're too entrenched in Big Pharma lies and missconceptions that we've carried around all of our lives, that`s why I wholeheartily feel the need to re-state my warm reccomendation of going over to BodyRecomposition and interacting with the folks there, they`re eye-openers. Really.</div>
    You are twisted [​IMG]
     
  18. <div>
    (wisslewj @ Apr. 22 2007,08:50)</div><div id="QUOTEHEAD">QUOTE</div><div id="QUOTE">Margoth,

    you are cracking me up lol.  

    In any event, I think I could have read this guys book in the past as I have read much about the Ketogenic diet in the past.

    My findings were, that while it does seem to work well for many, many people dont efficiently do gluconeogenesis which will leave them tired, weak, and quite literally stupid.  Those people absolutely need some carbs to keep a positive level in their livers.

    So, as with anything these days, diet does depend on ones operating system.

    As for any &quot;magic&quot; raw meat has, it doesnt.  It is simply materials that are more bio available and hence serve to better supply the body with what it needs.  The body has a remarkable ability to heal itself given the proper raw materials.  Think of it as the debate between one protein powder being more bioavailable for muscle growth.  

    I dont think raw meat will evolve me into some freeaky white light capable of infinite wisdom and telekinises.  [​IMG]

    Quad,

    that doesnt suprise me as most lifters follow the status quo of eating.  Most of the people I have met I didnt meat in gyms.  I either met them through the farmer I go to or some other way.  But they are out there lol.

    I know that Vince Gironda advocated a diet very similar to what I do and he trained champs like crazy.  You can even call the guy that now promotes Vinces books etc. (Ron was his name if I recall) He follows Vinces diet advice and eats a low carb raw meat diet.  (You can buy any of Vince workout books or diet books via this guy at pretty good prices.  To my knowledge this is the only place you can buy Vinces stuff these days. I have the number around here somewhere if anyone has ever been interested in Vinces stuff.)

    Vince did advocate liver pills which I dont agree with.  If one is gonna eat liver, which IS good for some people, I would most definitely make sure its grass fed no matter how ya eat it, cookd or raw.  Commercial cow livers are scary with toxins.

    The point is that there were plenty of bodybuilders at one point eating raw foods and low carb diets with great success.  However, as with most everything, people have set aside healthy foods for crap loaded with MSG, hydronated oils, chemicals, wierd hormones, pestisides, etc.  Heck people would be far healthier, even if not eating raw, if they just ate natural unprocessed foods without all the crap.

    As I said before, a natural diet would also be low in carbs because almost all carbs need to be processed. (and are only seasonally available)  People would then be stuck just eating fruit/veggies for the most part when in season and thems are good eating lol.

    God Bless
    Jeff</div>
    I knew what you were saying. Man, Vince Gironda...one of the greatest, if not THE greatest luminary bodybuilding has ever had. He was very very ripped in his prime, and drug free too. I know he trained like all of the champs, and some Hollywood stars. And he was way ahead of his time not only with his raw-meat diet, but with the reccomendation of eating glandulars(did he also advocate getting raw sources, I dunno, can`t find his books where I live), getting kelp tabs and wheat germ oil. And his training was also very very advanced, he could alter the shape of the muscles being worked, which is a secret lost to us nowadays.

    About Lyle's book on ketogenic diets...you have to realize the man has to make a living, if he were to expose the whole truth about the dark con of man being enacted by Big Pharmas and misled doctors, they would do their best to discredit him, and you know that they have the power required to surround him in a barrier of lies that would ruin his life. So his books are written in code, only those like you, who know their stuff, can really understand the true message. He does expose most of the mantra of raw-based life on his board, that`s why you have to register there, so he can be sure you`re not an imposteur trying to take advantage of his kindness. You`ll see for yourself, as you are certainly intelligent enough to handle yourself.

    And I really wasn`t being facetious, I`m very very interested in this raw meat stuff, I guess I was simply too entrenched in pseudo-science and not listening to my body. What`s detox, how do I do that?Do I need it in order to grow slabs of muscle without turning into a tub of lard?Is there some reccomended reading on the subject?

    Dan...not really, I just wanna twist again(that was and still is a great tune). [​IMG]
     
  19. wisslewj

    wisslewj New Member

    Margoth,

    Honestly you have me cracking up. I much prefer your witty sarcasm to direct attacks lol! [​IMG]

    Go into the part about reptile aliens or however that one goes. Oooh and the hollow eath part too. I bet you could have a field day with those! [​IMG]

    Your kidding aside, I DO think that big Pharma is corupt. Anyone that doesnt see a problem with the way the current medical establishment is organized must be blind lol. Its like having your bookie give you advice on a horse. You really think he is gonna want to lose his money? [​IMG]

    And as far as Gironda goes, say what ya will, his record speaks for itself.

    Jeff
     
  20. I grow weary of this. He`s one of Lyle`s, otherwise he would`ve been over on BR in a second spewing his crap. Hats off to you sir, you`re quite an elaborate troll, and your act is most complete. You`ve managed to compile a seemingly impossible ammount of shitty ideas, misconceptions, bro-knowledge, false assumptions about basic physiology, made-up voodoo crap and so on into a coherent trolling argument, which is outward impressive. My bet would be on TonyZ, as he`s about as good as it gets in this domain, but I do think he had his sight set on T-nation alone.

    And if anyone actually tries eating raw meat and bacteria based on the posts in this thread, also try cutting off your testicles in order to prevent aromatization and thus negative side-effects from testosterone, please. This is another great bbing secret, and I`m not hardcore enough for it, but great researchers have proved that with castrate-levels of testosterone, you`ll actually gain huge ammounts of muscle without gaining fat. Really, I kid you not, if you understood the physiology as deeply as I do after reading Penthouse, you`d see the validity of their argument. I personally am building up my courage in order to break this last barrier in my path to muscularity.
     

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